June 26th, 2008 | SamR | 6 Comments

There is an anglican cathedral in Second life. Syd Ang has an article about it here. What do you think about it?

6 responses to “Second life Anglicans” Leave your Comment
  1. onlinesoph says:

    I think its a bit creepy.

  2. Gareth Edwards says:

    I lead the mid-week worship at the Anglican Cathedral in Second Life, and have been involved with the community there for well over a year. Although a busy British Methodist minister in real life, I find it a compelling and vital arena for ministry and mission. The Church is called, after all, to go where the people are at. And Second Life is certainly where vast numbers of people are spending their time.

    Your comment is interesting, Soph, and I’d love for you to expand upon why you feel that way. I think it would be particularly instructive for me and other pioneers in this work as the comment comes from someone who is certainly no luddite. Far from it!You are one who puts much of your heart into what you share online, and who, as apparent in your writings, so obviously knows the value of the internet for self-expression and the communication of ideas and faith.

    Thanks to you both, Sam and Soph, for mentioning our ministry on your site – and for all you do in ‘The Fountainside’. Perhaps I can take you on a Tour of the Cathedral and its island sometime?God bless.

    The Revd Gareth J Edwards (Gareth Janus in Second Life).

  3. onlinesoph says:

    Hello Gareth,

    Thanks for sharing a bit about what you do.

    I probably should qualify what I meant by “a bit creepy”, in that I find it creepy because I find Second Life creepy.

    Firstly, I’m no SL expert – I’ve only once entered the SL world as research for a news story I did for work (and the story didn’t paint it in a favourable light). The short time I spent there, I was TOTALLY weirded out. I got lost and somehow found myself on some island and a fox looking creature hit on me. My online name was androgynous, so he/she didn’t even know if I was a man/woman! It wasn’t a pleasant experience, so my thoughts on it could be misconceptions.

    But here they are anyway. Firstly, people aren’t real on second life. They adopt different personas – whether its another gender, a talking animal, a hybrid creature – and you never know if the person you are “talking” to is who they represent themselves to be.

    Secondly, people who are into SL talk about the game with an intensity that baffles me – as if it’s real life and not a game.

    Thirdly, SL is not life. It is not a substitute for relating to people in the real world. I worry sometimes that people treat it – as they may treat blogging and facebook – as just that – life.

    You mentioned that Sam and I are no luddites (I’m flattered!). But funnily enough, all the things I’m wary of about SL, are also all the things that worry me about blogging. On blogs (or at least on this one), most of the people who comment are friends. I know how to take their words, they now how to take mine – i.e. they don’t need a smiley face to know when I’m joking. But at the same time, I know that there are people reading – lots of people I don’t know – who may think that they know me well, even have a relationship with me, because they read my posts. That weirds me out a little too. I guess there’s a sliding scale and I’m only comfortable to go so far (words yes, virtual bodies no – sounds unfair, does it? But that’s how I feel).

    In terms of ministry. I noticed you thanked Sam and I for the ministry we do on thefountainside. To be honest, I don’t see this blog as my ministry. Sure, it is a great place to write encouraging posts and I’m happy when people are blessed by them, but it is no substitute for real life ministry that happens outside the Internet.

    How do you do ministry to people if you didn’t know who they are? (I’m aware of books written to the masses, or the natural question that follows what I’ve said, “well, do we really know who anyone is?” I mean one-to-one personal ministry.) People talk about ministry through blogging, but more often than not, when I read comments on ministry or God, people are argumentative and sarcastic – not because they are like that by nature, but because the Internet gives them a certain freedom to be perhaps funnier, sharper, more “mean” than societal norms allow for in real life. I wonder if the same would happen on SL?

    I have many more thoughts on this, but perhaps I should leave it there. No doubt I’ve made some gross assumptions about SLers and even bloggers, so perhaps you could shed some light for me in this area. No matter what I think, I’m glad there are people who are brave enough to take the gospel of Jesus into unknown territory to reach people – even if that means on the Internet. We need people like you, so God Bless in your ministry!

  4. Mary Wanamaker says:

    Hi Soph,

    I am one of the lay leaders at the Anglican Cathedral in Second Life. I would like to speak to your impressions on SL, and maybe help clarify things.

    First off, many people can tell similar stories to the one you related about your first experience of SL. It is a vast world, full of all types of people, just like real life (RL, in Second Life lingo). There are plenty of creepy places there, and also plenty of not-so-creepy ones. That is the nature of SL. Something for absolutely everyone.

    You say, “people aren’t real in SL.” Well, yes and no. Behind every SL avatar is indeed a real person. Some people adopt different personas, true, but many (in fact, the majority of people I’ve met at the SL Cathedral) bring their RL personas with them. The only way to really know which is which is to get to know them, and develop a relationship. That is one of the strengths and blessings of our work at the SL Cathedral. We have an opportunity to build community with one another. I have made many very good friends through my work there, and have gotten to know (and worship with) people that I never would have had the opportunity to meet in the “real world.”

    You make reference to SL as a “game.” Well, it’s easy to see why people refer to it that way, because it looks and functions much like a game. While it is true that gaming goes on in SL, and it is also true that some people treat it as one, it would more accurately be described as a 3-D social networking platform. Most SL people that I know treat it as an extension of, not a substitute for, their offline lives.

    Our ministry work in SL gives us opportunities to reach people that are unique to the environment in which we function. We provide an experience of church and community to many who are already active in their local RL churches. We also extend this opportunity to those who, due to physical infirmities, geographical challenges and other issues, would not have this opportunity otherwise. We provide a safe space for those who are curious about church to come and interact with us, who might not be comfortable doing so in RL. And, as you have discovered, there is definitely a seedy side to SL. Where better to establish a home for Christ’s presence, than a place with many lost souls?

    Thank you for your interest in our ministry. I hope I have helped to shed some light on what we are doing, and I welcome any further questions you, or any of your readers, might have. And I join Gareth in thanking you for the work you do. I believe that “real life” and virtual ministries work best when they complement one another, and that both bring great value to the work of the Church.

    Blessings,
    Mary Wanamaker (Cady Enoch in SL)

  5. Wilfried says:

    Hey Soph,
    Thanks for your explanation about why you feel a church in SL is kind of “creepy.”

    I felt quite the same, but I wanted nonetheless to see what those Anglicans were up to there on SL.

    I think that for most newbies to SL, their experiences in the first few minutes or hours determines a lot of what they think SL is all about, and what is possible or likely in terms of social interaction on that platform. I went straight to the cathedral after “landing” outside the help island (actually, when I “landed,” the first person I met was a bdsm dominatrice escort – I told her I was a newbie, and she let me ride her motorcycle and then gave me 150 linden dollars, just being nice to a newbie I guess – so I quickly learned that like real life, there are a lot of social possibilities with people who are into things I deeply disapprove of, just as long as I remember that I have to pick and choose what my “mission” really is, and what kind of time I want to take with people getting to know & understand them, before talking about more prickly things that we probably wouldn’t agree on).

    Anyways, fortunately the visit to the cathedral made me realize that there was more to SL than just bdsm dominatrice escorts, and it’s a strange experience indeed to sit together in a virtual church space with a lot of other people, knowing that those people are praying and worshiping with you, even though they are located all over the world.

    It takes some time getting used to SL and figuring out how to best interact with others with the thought of God’s work in mind, when one really doesn’t have the resources that one does in real life. You can’t look someone in the eyes, smile, or let them know that you are listening attentively – except for just responding in chat in a way that is thoughtful, engaging, and considerate. However, there is something definitely liberating about the medium, that means that many are a lot more likely to get into discussions about spiritual things in a way they wouldn’t otherwise. No one in their neighbourhood or group of friends will know about the conversation, or will tell them they’re off their rocker for talking about God, or discussing sincere doubts they have. No one will gossip that they were seen at a church service and are on the road to religious freakdom.

    Another weird thing on SL is praying with people. A few days after I first arrived on SL I had a moment that was a bit of a crisis and a prayer request that I didn’t feel comfortable sharing with friends (it was about those very friends). I found a Christian group and asked someone if they took prayer requests. Someone then asked me what I wanted to pray about, and we prayed together in chat. This was very strange – knowing that someone I’d never met, without knowing his location in the world, cared enough to listen to my need, and then together with me, brought my request before God almighty, who is everywhere and hears all prayers. It was being united with him in prayer and addressing God together that I realized the potential for ministry in SL. A moment that sort of hit me over the head with a bat.

    Anyways, “ministry” in SL is mostly just about getting to know people in a situation where you are together in chat, either in a group, or one-on-one. It is full of weird limitations and frustrations, but also has an enormous potential for reaching out to people in ways that they, and you, will find quite surprising, if you are able to do it well.

    Imagine the readers of your blog – suppose it were possible for you to meet them, “nearly” face-to-face, and discuss your blog posts privately – and also whatever was going on in their lives – and you could hang out with them all together and talk about whatever, or else go somewhere and sit with them to talk about more personal things. That’s the kind of place SL is – of course, this is a situation that many will abuse by, when “going private,” doing all kinds of nasty things. You can just avoid those folks, and they usually will be kicked out of places that are a bit more “reputable.” But it’s also a situation that stimulates thinking together about things that most people won’t dare to go in “real life” situations, unless you get to know them really, really well.

    I must say though, I’ve met a few SL Christians who are trying to do a ministry, but aren’t quite there yet – they need to consider a bit more how people interact (in general), and more specifically how they do so inside SL. There are many wounded, freaky, oddball folks in SL, and some of them are Christians, and some of these also feel they are doing God’s work in SL. Some of them make mistakes. You will have many disappointments and frustrations if you try any kind of SL ministry. Some seem to think that the medium alone will magically unleash their spiritual potential without much effort, thinking, or consideration on their part. This is “bubble thinking” – very “web 2.0″ – you will be on a spiritual high for a few days and then crash when you feel people or groups you cherish have let you down. You’ll need to spend time thinking about how people, and how groups, interact – and how you can do something that is really of benefit, and helps. SL is also not a place for many. There is something addictive about it for many people, and the seedy side is also never far away, even in “Christian” places, since these places are also frequented by folks who are investigating spirituality, but are very much part of the “seedy side” crowd in SL, and if they find you interesting, they’ll tempt you. There are also a few “Christian” regulars who are struggling with things and might also want to see what you’re up for. As you can imagine, a challenge to find the right way of dealing with people in a loving way when the main medium is chat. Those who are likely to be tempted by porn or by people looking for steamy chat sessions, or take offense fairly easily, really shouldn’t venture into SL.

    A few weeks ago I had an interesting chat with the owner of one of the largest Christian sims in SL. He told me he doesn’t like the idea of promoting SL, just because there’s so much of the seediness – but if you are already in SL, then why not use that time in a way that’s for God’s glory? I think I basically agree with him. I think most people who have been in Christian ministry on SL are a bit skeptical when a newbie shows up, full of fresh enthusiasm for doing something in SL for God. So I don’t really promote the idea of SL for Christians, but am happy to talk about it, and hope that those who do venture in, seriously pray and think about what they’re involving themselves in. If you’re still up for it though, ask people at the cathedral to put you in touch with me (Wilf), I’d be happy to talk about the ups & downs of SL for Christians.

  6. onlinesoph says:

    Cool. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I am totally behind any missional work for gospel, whether it be in our city, a foreign land or the realms of cyberspace.

    However, reading all your comments, I don’t think SL is for me. I still prefer face-to-face interaction when it comes to Christian encouragement and fellowship, even just getting to know people. As for blogging being akin to SL (i.e. meeting “nearly” face-to-face), that’s just not how I see what I write on the fountainside.

    But thanks for sharing. It has been enlightening, and I will try and remember to keep the three of you in my prayers – that God may make His glory known through your work :)

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